Difficult project to use if no one ever replies!

Openfire Openfire Support
#1

The hardest part about any project is finding a way to make sure that people can get information.

So far, it is practically impossible to get anywhere with openfire because there are mostly questions and not very many answers.

Sure, it’s easy to say RTFM and Search Google and others but that isn’t going to make the project support any better.

Openfire seems to be for developers only because I see end users trying and trying to get answers with few replies.

That said, where the heck does someone get help because other than commercial and searching to find more questions, there don’t appear to be many avenues.

#2

Well… I think it’s a predictable situation: Jive’s techicians have to give priority to commercial support. That’s the drawback of open source…

Anyway I’m waiting for an answer too, and I really need that as I’m stuck in my code… you’re definitely right, there’s too many open issues… hope it get better.

#3

I understand that but it’s crummy to see the community that initially got projects going sitting on the sides while companies start turning commercial.

If that is going to be the case, why not split things up or something. I don’t know the history of this project, I just know I’m going to have to move on since most questions go unanswered.

Thanks for the input.

#4

Jive does not support the software within Igniterealtime, they do generously provide the infrastructure to develop the code. I am also not aware of any active commerical supporters of Openfire, Version2Software is the only one I am familiar with.

#5

I believe it starts to look like an undertone of commerce comes first when forums have so many unanswered questions. If I started feeling this only days into being here, instead of worrying about my deciding to post/ask about the situation, more effort should be taken to find a way to answer people’s questions.

I mean, I’m already feeling that unless I am a developer, I will be very lucky to get replies to my questions.

We’ll see, I have plenty more questions before giving up.

Thank you for the input, though, it does not answer why there are so many unanswered questions in your forums.

#6

Lewisy,

I’m trying to grasp your comments, but you aren’t making sense to me. Where are you seeing the “undertone of commerce”? I don’t see places or posts in the forum where folks are selling services. I see some asking to pay for help. The are just a handful of developers and we are all volunteers. wroot does a great job monitoring the forums, but he is about the only one that is so proactive. Asking more verbose questions, properly tagging the questions, linking to other questions in your post will help get them answered.

Developers get frustrated when folks like you show up 2 days after registering and start whining about not getting answers. Will you answer any forum posts? You’ll probably say no because of my attitude. Shrug, go look through my 1,000+ posts and see how many questions I answered…

#7

All you do is defend yourself instead of trying to see the bigger picture. You keep saying you don’t understand me when the things I say are very clear. Maybe you just choose not to understand so that you can find ways to argue with me?

Here is the perfect example of what is wrong here.

First you reply to the above question and when I give more information, all you come back with is whining that I complained about the forums. Kind of makes my point when all you can do is argue with me and not want to see the real problem.

The forums are not very vibrant, they are packed with unanswered questions and you’re spending your time defending what is making my points more obvious.

Perhaps you should stop crying the blues about offering your free time and either help people or don’t bother replying in such ways. Your very first contact with me was to point out this post in the above on so why point out that my first posts after being here for only two days are negative.

As for my observation, as I said, it was simply an observation. When a product has a commercial version and the forums are near dead, it can look like answers are held back in order to frustrate users into wanting to pay for answers I’m not saying this IS the case, I’m implying that it could appear to be the case, ANYWHERE, not just here.

As for helping others, good for you, nice that you do help them and it would be even nicer if you spent time wanting to convert me into a helped end user so that I too much be able to contribute some day if I can learn enough about this project/product.

Your atitude or helpfulness won’t be a factor in my wanting to help others, my knowledge of the project will be.

Now if we can get off the argument nonsense, talk about the unanswered questions and how that could be changed, I’m all for positive communications instead of this waste of time.

#8

Please, before spending any more time arguing, go re-read the subject of this post.

It says it all. It isn’t meant to be insulting, it is an observation.

If I or others cannot get their questions answered then there is a fundamental problem with the project/s.

On the other hand, working on finding ways to get peoples questions answered would lead to an even more vibrant community, projects and opportunities.

One of my main missions in life is to push Linux to everyone, small and large, showing them that if we do not support alternatives, then it will become a world of very few choices. I WANT to understand and use open source products and I WANT my friends and business to use them as well. I cannot do that if I cannot find answers to questions.

Thanks.

#9

Again, where is this commercial version?

#10

I did ask that we stop arguing points and instead try to work on finding a solution did I not?

Again, here are your own words below…

I don’t see places or posts in the forum where folks are selling services.

I see some asking to pay for help.

Gee, I wonder if that means people are practically BEGGING for help. It makes one wonder why that would be. Most VIBRANT projects have VIBRANT communities that help each other. They help each other because it didn’t take pulling teeth to get help so they are willing to help others. All I see here are TONS of unanswered questions.

Then I see you of all people arguing with me, a simple an end user about how wrong I am. Whew. Yet, you still wonder why I wonder about a commercialised (payment for HELP) undertone?

Why are you beating a dead freaking horse? You can’t win or lose this argument because it’s not an argument, it’s an observation.

I didn’t make this stuff up, just go take a look at any the thread lists, you’ll see MANY views on each question and MANY unanswered questions.

#11

I’m trying to understand your point. Perhaps there are places on the website that still hint at the old Jive commercial offering that no longer exists. If there are, I have the power to go correct them. So what you are saying is that since the forums are rather dead, you get the impression that there is a commercial version somewhere that somebody is wishing for you to pay for to get help and they purposely keep the forums quiet to encourage this? Could you provide a list of forum posts that you wish to have answers for? I’d be happy to go follow up with any of them that I can help with. Perhaps the Joomla posts would do better on their support forums, not sure about that one.

#12

PS: You are spending all of this time trying to argue with me.

Can you not please, just look at the threads list and understand what I am saying.

This was not meant as a personal attack and I wasn’t even aware of whom ever you are until YOU replied.

If you would look at my ‘whining’, you might understand that there is a deeper problem.

Your spending all this time arguning with me is not taking care of the bigger problems.

I very much want to use openfire as a solution but I need questions answered in order to learn more about the project so that I can put it to use. Questioning whether I’ll help others or not is irrelevant right now because I myself am trying to find answers.

How can I get answers to my questions if not in these forums then? I am not implying anything, I am simply saying that it doesn’t look good so instead of fighting, maybe we could turn this into a positive and find some solutions to make the project better for everyone.

#13

I asked one question about joomla and no, it would not do better there since the question is about integrating openfire or a client.

There are no hidden meanings to my responses Daryl so stop looking for them. I’ve made my points, see the last post below. Time to stop trying to find reasons to argue with me and time to find solutions to making these forums come alive.

#14

I can only hope that @Daryl stops arguing with me long enough to notice that there is a bigger problem than someone actually voicing the obvious. It’s weird to pick on people that ‘whine’ about real problems.

Even if I am mistaken about possible commercial feelings, the forums and questions are still going unanswered and that IS a big problem.

#15

Okay, lets start over. The reason there are so many unanswered questions is that there are only a few of us volunteering to commit code and proactively attempt to answer questions. Fixing this is something I try to do each day by recruiting more developers and giving users more permissions in Jira/SVN. I sit in the open_chat each day answering questions as best I can.

I am not arguing with you, but keep attempting to seek clarification on your commercial comments, because I worry that people don’t feel the opportunity to pitch in on this project if they think Jive is the company making money behind the scenes on this, as what Gabriware commented.

#16

Okay, lets start over

Fair enough, let’s do that but please, have an open mind from this point on. I apologize for my post coming across as harshly as it might have to you but it is not meant to be harsh, it is only an observation.

The reason there are so many unanswered questions is that there are only a few

of us volunteering to commit code and proactively attempt to answer questions.

That is not a great reason :). If you look at any very lively open source project community out there, you’ll see one very big difference. It is not only the developers helping people out, it is the community itself. There is often a sort of hierarchy, something along the lines of devs sharing with devs who aren’t related to the project but contribute code. They in turn share with the general population and in turn, that population shares with the rest as they become more knowledgeable.

Then you have the jerks that only reply ‘go search google’ which is so incredibly tiring unless it’s really obvious that the person isn’t even trying to learn anything.

It seems to me that so many unanswered questions means that there aren’t enough people who are sharing and it is your job to find a way to get people to share more. Some places have point systems where you can become a Guru for example in helping or simply earn karma points, what ever. Maybe you could have a yearly prize, sponsored by the community, I don’t know, that’s the stuff to think about though.

Fixing this is something I try to do each day by recruiting more developers and giving

users more permissions in Jira/SVN. I sit in the open_chat each day answering

questions as best I can.

I don’t doubt that you help people, I can’t possibly imply that you don’t. All I can say is what I see and what I’ve experienced in the week or so of wanting to use openfire as a solution. In that week, I have found pretty much nothing for answers to ANY of my questions. Searching leads only to more questions or developers talking developer talk which is useless to the end user.

What I’ve never understood about some communities is how they lock themselves up to look like elites, only those at the top help each other because they contribute. Bah, that’s baloney. If there were no end users, there would be only developers and anyone who is overly technical can tell you that you end up being the few that use something because no one else understands it.

I know because I have been a developer all of my life so have found myself there countless times, inventing very cool things that nobody understands until I pass it on to someone who can learn the use it, then pass that secondary knowledge on to those who aren’t as technical. Not everyone is going to be a developer, not everyone can be a programmer so somehow the knowledge for end users needs to be passed on.

I am not arguing with you, but keep attempting to seek clarification on your commercial

comments,

Nope, only you have asked me to clarify this countless times and as I’ve said, I am not implying this is the case, I am saying that in observation only, it could appear to be the case. I can’t count how many times I’ve said this :).

because I worry that people don’t feel the opportunity to pitch in on this project if they

think Jive is the company making money behind the scenes on this, as what

Gabriware commented.

Ah, finally, now we’re getting somewhere. I’m happy that you added that, it is a very honest statement which I can totally relate to. Yes, I agree, I would not want anyone to start believing that either. However, sometimes, it takes talking openly about things that might not be great topics in order to identify problems.

I’ve made my observation, we’ve had the discussion. I am more than happy to spend time on trying to find solutions to the problem, which is unanswered questions. Not only for my own benefit but for the community as well as the project. I think openfire looks fantastic, I’d love to see it kick ass without time to take names but until folks can find answers, it’s a difficult project to use (I’ve just gone full circle).

Maybe it’s time for a new thread now that we’ve exhausted this one to a positive at least.

#17

I would be happy to start a new thread that is more positive if you wish or by all means, you can do it.

Let me know.

#18

I don’t have a preference. If you’d like to break apart your last post into specific items, that’d be fine. One thing to note is that this web forum tool has a points system and folks get points as users tip them for answers, etc. Once you get so many points and community support, you get a fancy badge like I have

The one point about your post with locking up the forums to look like ellites, I agree with. But there are near zero of us doing that, since there are near zero committers. Less than 5 currently active. The active communities you note also have active code committers. Giant chicken/egg process that we are currently undergoing.

#19

If you’d like to break apart your last post into specific items, that’d be fine.

I’ll just start a new one to atone for coming across as negative ok?

Once you get so many points and community support, you get a

fancy badge like I have

Ok, well, that’s not working for the majority so seems time to find something else, do you agree.

The one point about your post with locking up the forums to look like

ellites, I agree with. But there are near zero of us doing that, since

there are near zero committers.

Nope, not saying anyone looks like that here, just saying that happens, a lot.

I’ve done it myself in my own field now and then, it’s normal that it happens now and then as one becomes tired of answering the same old questions. But then, that’s why a vibrant community ends up with folks who are next in line to answer those repeated questions as others move on to the more difficult ones. That just happens too if it’s nurtured that way.

I’m all for spending the little bit of free time I have to advancing Linux in any way possible. Let’s see if we can come up with something constructive at this point.

#20

Sounds good. Typically the points haven’t worked because users don’t click the “Correct Answer” or “Helpful Answer” buttons to award points, nor do they mark questions as answered. Some folks attempt to remind first time users to do that, but others don’t.